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We don't we try not to do it anymore from very specific situations because again, it makes you feel a little bit desperate, you know, you especially when it gets to the end of the bond, you've got to hit your targets and you suddenly like the only way you can do this is to give a discount code.

You actually have been more detrimental because if someone's ready to buy and then you go, oh, we just lowered the price for you that you've got to ask yourself why you know any children you get now where it's. Free forever. Why is it free? Yeah, no, I did the hardest for the free product. Right even with the even if the paid version people don't don't really how do how would you say that they don't respect the.

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The products that are free, right? Yeah, but it's just it's know if they haven't invested anything themselves. They haven't had to put even a single dialogue and investment doesn't have to be by the way money. It could be time. It could be an email address like you should value people's email addresses nowadays, but like if it cost him nothing is cost him nothing to lose it and that you know, that's the tough part.

So actually you mentioned a little bit about that or we talked a little. About the early days of of our company and how we had our first sales and I actually remember, you know doing most of this stuff by myself. And and this is how we get to the second point of our discussion. So whether it's good or bad, too.

Higher or not to hire but work with or Outsource your sales at early stage. So you find a you create a cool product. Then you get some company that's really skilled in sales like a call center or whatever and you get them to to sell your product. Is it a good idea? Like I would love to say no because I don't believe in it and I wouldn't do it.

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But of course they were going to be success stories out there of people that do. But for me, like again, we come from a very value. I like working at 24 because we have the same vision of value first because remember customer satisfaction is everything and I just would like my main goal when we build teams.

I thought brand24 we don't have sales and customer support their customer success like, you know, everybody pitches in because I feel that when you pass a customer at any point in their Journey sure, it causes confusion or it can they can make them. So the worst thing you can have is a customer like I've seen it before you probably all had these right you have what we call a chaser.

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So you have that one person the sales department that does a thousand calls but it's just appointment setting. Yeah, and how how stupid it is when they call you and they go okay you make we're in your if I said to that person. Okay, you saw me I want to buy now. They couldn't sell it. Yeah, it has to go through the change but it's for me.

It's not right, but when it comes to that to our sourcing I feel you're diluting the value you're diluting the product and more so like we talked about before you are missing. Nose nose are probably more valuable than yeses in the early days because you learn why absolutely it can only read more about that the nose and the feedback that you get from customers is the most important thing you can get at the early stage because the typically your early version of the product is not necessarily your shown dream come true or the customers dream come true, you know solution for for anything.

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So so the early days are. The best source of feeding and actually miss that a lot that you know, and I think I like 2011. We launched the product and I was doing all the sales, you know, there was never time in our history where I'll learn more about needs of customers about problems that we solve then at the Third Estate.

So why would you why in the hell would you miss on that? You know and I think a lot of it is down to kind of being afraid like doing sales is a scary thing and the. India's some people you know it for some people building a product for their company for some of them. It's just a process they don't they're not they're not in it because they love doing what they do and hiring hiring an Outsourcing sales teams will guarantee you a certain amount of sales, right?

It's a machine but the feeling that the customers are left with probably the lifecycle of those customers. I've got to feel that it hurts it in the long run personally. Yeah, I mean. We pretty much come back to the go-to guy. Maybe like not not the sales go to guy, but definitely a business go to guy.

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So Elon Musk you mentioned when talking about this comes right? We found a remember you shared on our slack the letter to employees where you know null discounts policy just because it evaluates. Yeah our product and actually, you know, one of the. There's another like key inside that I got from from from Elon musk's biography that when they were on the edge of the bankruptcy when selling Model S or pre-sell some are less or even the demolish before he made all the team members like the engineer's not the marketers not the salesman that he made all of them work as a sales colder the potential customers, whatever and.

And it made all the difference and apparently especially in the early stage the founders the Creator's the engineer's might be way better salespeople than the you know, the decorated sales people from from outside the company that don't necessarily understand what problem they told and that's the key like again, you'll keep coming back to it.